Permission to Eat: Healing Disordered Eating

Today we’re talking about something so many women carry quietly: disordered eating and body image stuff. We get honest about our own histories (yep, both ends of the spectrum) and what actually helped us move toward peace—without shame, perfection, or “just try harder” nonsense.

In this episode, we talk about:

• How eating disorders aren’t just anorexia and bulimia—there’s a whole range of disordered eating behaviors
• Patti’s experience with control, trauma, food hiding, bingeing, and the shame spiral
• Jan’s experience with thinness pressure, dance culture, and bingeing/purging without even knowing what it was called
• Why food often becomes a coping tool (just like alcohol, drugs, work, shopping… you get it)
• How body dysmorphia messes with what we think we see in the mirror
• The sneaky messages we absorb from family, culture, and “well-meaning” comments
• Why therapy matters (because food is rarely the real issue)
• The power of permission: eating carbs, adding snacks, and even having dessert on purpose

If you’re struggling, here’s what we encourage:

• Consider therapy with someone who understands trauma + body image
• Work with a registered dietitian/nutritionist who doesn’t shame bodies (HAES-aligned can be a great fit)
• Start small with body neutrality: “I’m not broken” is a powerful first step

Find resources mentioned in this episode here.

Learn more about this podcast here.

Submit your 90-second lesson/experience here.

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*Information shared on this podcast is not medical advice. If you have a concern about your physical or mental health, please seek support from a proessional.

Transcript

Jan: Welcome to things my mother forgot to mention, 

Patti: the podcast where we say everything our mothers didn't. 

Jan: I'm Jan, a trauma therapist and author, turned rogue storyteller here to talk openly about the body aging and all the. Wait, what moments of womanhood 

Patti: and I'm Patty, an online business and tech nerd whose purpose is to elevate the voices of women in our world and who doesn't believe in taboo topics.

Things my mother forgot to mention is the podcast for every woman who's ever said, wait, why didn't anyone mention this to me? 

Jan: Join Jan and Patty. Two, outspoken, curious, outrageous women as they dive headfirst into a messy, magical, and often WTF realities of aging health, and quite simply being a woman 

Patti: from rogue chin hairs and vaginal thinning 

Jan: to mental health perimenopause.

In scalp cancer. Yes. Really 

Patti: nothing is off limits. It's funny, it's raw, it's real talk. Your mother definitely skipped. 

Jan: Let's get into it. 

Patti: Hello, Jan. 

Jan: Hey there, Patty. Long time. No, see, I'm glad to see you. It's been so long. 

Patti: I know, I know. It's good to see you. I know we batch these sometimes, um, so sometimes we, we don't see each other for a little bit.

Jan: Right, 

Patti: right. 

Jan: And 

Patti: yeah. 

Jan: And I'm off where, uh, sunny Florida is where I am and, um, I'm down light where Texas is. So 

Patti: yeah, 

Jan: we're kind of in the same kind of 

Patti: mm-hmm. 

Jan: Latitude. 

Patti: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Similar weather patterns. Similar. 

Jan: Mm-hmm. 

Patti: Yeah. Not freezing where you would be at home right now. 

Jan: Right. Which is good.

I'd be shoveling what I'd be doing right now anyway. Yeah, 

Patti: yeah, yeah. Yeah. 

Jan: Good to see you. And I'm looking forward to talking about our eating disorders, which is quite a hot topic, I think, in this world. And it's very secretive too for some people. 

Patti: Mm-hmm. 

Jan: Um, it's, and there so much shame and people hide it, and then there's some people who, it's clear you can really tell mm-hmm.

That they're really struggling with it. And it comes in, it's all different ranges here, so. 

Patti: Yeah. Yeah. And I think it is, I think it's a really important conversation to have because it is huge and, and I think that people tend to look at eating disorders as like anorexia or bulimia, and those are like the most well known, but there's really, I mean.

So much in between with eating disorders. And there's a lot of people as in myself who have not been diagnosed officially as having an eating disorder. Right. But it is clear in various ways in their lives. And so, um, you know, I definitely did some research as well to pull up like, what does it look like commonly for people so that they, they're aware of.

Disordered eating behavior and what that actually looks like, right? Mm-hmm. Um, because there's all levels of it and it can be very minor to very life-threatening and serious Yes. And everything between. 

Jan: Yes. Actually that's something I can talk about. I used to work, um, at, when I was first, uh, therapist and getting licensed in an eating disorder clinic and, uh, we had quite a few, uh, women who, uh, were.

Eating, disordered anorexia that wouldn't eat, and we'd weigh them and then they ended up having to go to the hospital and be fed and, and through a tube. I mean, it's, it can be really rough. Yeah. And uh, and I remember learning so much about it and thinking, wow, there's such extremes. There's like, like you said, the hospitalization or inpatient somewhere to, you know, just your.

Oh, I don't know. Everyday person, um, who like watches calories and is a little obsessive about it and 

Patti: yeah, 

Jan: those kinds of things. So yeah. So what, when did you really find that you had some issues and what did that look like for you when you were growing up? 

Patti: Yeah, so I've really had disordered eating my entire life is what I've, wow.

I've realized, and I think, you know, at the time it was not ever anything that I realized or, because for me, I always saw eating disorders again, like I said, as anorexia or bulimia or something very extreme and. That, which sounds weird, but like in order for you to have an eating disorder, you're really thin.

Right? And like I never growing up. If you were fat, it wasn't an eating disorder, you were just fat. You didn't have willpower, you didn't have these things, and so I never, yeah, like eating disorder never was a language that I ever used because I was fat. I was overweight, so I could, I have an eating disorder if I was overweight.

I'm just have no willpower and I'm a crappy person and all these things. Huh. 

Jan: Right. 

Patti: But that's, that's the information I kind of picked up for myself. Yeah. So, 

Jan: right. 

Patti: I never even thought about that. Yeah. So when I was. When I was young, I was probably like nine. I was anorexic briefly, and so I had stopped eating and, and I think for me, a lot of my eating disorder came from control stuff, right?

Mm-hmm. So it was, this was the only thing really I felt like, I think I had control over in my life was. Food, right. With my body, because being abused as a child, I didn't have power over my body. And so that was a way that I could do that. And so I, and it's really interesting 'cause there's like pictures of me, like school pictures, you see, like I was always a chubby kid, you know?

Um, that's amazing. And then I was anorexic and so you see this next picture and I'm just like super thin and kind of bony. And then the next year it was like. Plumpy plump, like super, like I gained a ton of weight back, which at that point really threw off my metabolism, you know, at such a young age to be doing that with my body.

And I don't think my body was ever the same and my metabolism was ever the same after that. Um, and so at that point too, and I've thought about this and I learned about this a bit, um, as an adult when I started working with a nutritionist. A lot also was eating my feelings. Right. Um, I also realized that positive reinforcement came in the form of sweet foods.

Mm-hmm. So for me, sugary sweet things became really comforting. So like my grandparents would come and visit from California. We would get donuts at the grocery store. My grandfather would take all the kids to what he would call 11 7, 7 11 and we'd get candy. And so those are my go-to when I am having feelings as crappy grocery store donuts and candy.

And so it's a really interesting that I never caught any of that until I was older and was able to see some of those comparisons. 

Jan: What about, um, your mother? I know your father left when you were younger. Is that right? When you were about, 

Patti: well, when I was about 1110, uh, yeah, around there actually. So nine 11.

He left so well. He, he moved out when I was around nine or 10. Mm-hmm. And so I actually had gone from not eating anything and then I was complaining about stomach issues and that was as they got a divorce and he had moved out and I think it was just a lot of things of, of manifesting 

Jan: the symptoms.

Right. 

Patti: Yeah. And so they were just like, because I remember they were like, oh, it's because of the divorce. We don't see anything going on. So it's all because of the divorce and it's emotional and stuff like that. Right. Um, 

Jan: so yeah. What about, um. Like an example, like did your mom make food for you guys or did you not have meals?

I mean, sometimes I wonder about the education that parents give their kids about eating too. Yeah. 

Patti: So great. Great question. Yeah, so that's a part of it too. I really have learned more recently about really, I mean, I've, I've. I love vegetables and healthy food and things like that, but learning about the importance of the food pyramids and like balanced plates and things, I only really learned about as an adult when I was seeing a nutritionist.

But when I was young, my mom did cook for us. She was a stay-at-home mom, so she cooked a lot, but we didn't have a lot of money. So everything, like all of the, you know, vegetables that we would have are canned or frozen, and so I didn't know like fresh vegetables until I was. Right. Quite a older, like an adult.

Like I didn't know what spinach, I didn't know spinach was like an actual leafy vegetable. I thought it was like a mushy thing that came out of a box 

Jan: from the can. Right. A box frozen. Okay. Yeah. 

Patti: Yeah. And so, you know, there was kind of that bit for, for me, and, and so we, you know, and we had snacks and things like that.

It wasn't ever a thing. And my mom was overweight. Um, her parents were overweight. Her side of the family has struggled with their weight, and I would always see her like pull her shirt away from her stomach. Um, and she would never wear sleeveless anything because her arms were too fat to be seen. And so these, and she never, ever, ever remarked on my body.

Um, but I watched it and I absorbed it. Right? Yes. And she would say if I would wear when I was a little older, like a teenager. If I was wearing a shirt, well maybe that's a little too tight. But she never said it in a way of like, you can see your stomach. But that, that was the insinuation is that you're not supposed to let that belly bump of a tummy be visible.

Mm-hmm. And so, which made sense. 'cause I always see her pull her, I always see her pull her shirt away from her stomach. 

Jan: Right, 

Patti: right. So those were the messages I was sort of receiving. Plus I'm now eating my feelings and I, and I'm learning how to. Yeah. So I, 

Jan: and you're eating your feelings and your body's going from really, 

Patti: yeah.

Jan: You know, large to, really small to very large. Again, large. 

Patti: Yep, 

Jan: exactly. And then your grandparents are coming and they're bringing candy and Yeah. Yahoo. You know, let's eat the candy. 

Patti: Yeah. Yeah. And so I, and I, and I think, and I also realize now too, that I had body dysmorphia, which also means that when I would look at myself, I would see myself.

Much larger than I actually was, which of course, in retrospect, especially now, I look at myself like in my early twenties, and I thought I was so fat and I thought all these things, and I really was not like I, I was chubby, but like, it was not at all like, uh. It's so astonishing to, to look at pictures of yourself from a long time ago when you have body dysmorphia and see how vastly different you actually looked in real life from what you saw when you looked in the mirror.

And so I've never really been able to trust myself when I look in the mirror. Like I have no idea. Like I can look at pictures and I go, oh wow, I'm really big, or I'm really this or whatever. But like. I don't ever know, like, and so I'm always trying to compare myself. I'm always trying to be like, well, who might look the same size as me so I can kind of get a feel for how I really look, you know?

But the reality is none of that fucking matters, you know? Like that's where I get to now, 

Jan: right? 

Patti: Is that it doesn't, but it took a long time for that and so. When I was a senior in high school, I've talked about this a little bit on the podcast, that I became really depressed and, um, I didn't leave the house for six months, so I gained weight again.

Um, and then I lost a sign, significant amount of weight actually, when I was a freshman in high school. I remember I started doing Slim Fast. 

Jan: Oh right. 

Patti: And I would, the shakes, that was like a whole new thing and it was all the rage. And, 'cause my mom would do like Jenny Craig or Curve, like she would try different things.

She was always sort of doing that stuff. Um. And so I was trying to do that. And I remember I was so malnourished at one point that I almost passed out because I just wasn't, I was just drinking these shakes. I wasn't eating anything really. Um, and so I realized, okay, well this isn't good. So. So I started eating more again.

Um, so it's been very yo-yo for me. And then I would try diets and, and they would never work, of course, or they would, and then as soon as I fell off of it, I'd gained a bunch of weight back. Um, but I think the, the most disordered eating for me really started not long before I moved to Texas, actually. Um, interesting.

Yeah, and it was, I moved in with my partner and a couple of roommates, and we had been together for a long time, but it was the first time we were like, let's move in together. We're gonna do this. And he was an alcoholic. And so, and we were sharing a small space, like a, it was almost like a, not even a studio, but a room with a bathroom at the back and the bottom of this house that we shared with other people.

The housemates didn't make it very comfy to be up in the rest of the house. Mm-hmm. So I was kind of in this little space and I felt, I think very out of control. I didn't, he was drinking all the time, like it kind of ramped up now that it was in my face and we were living together and it was really intense and it was the first time I ever started.

Food hiding behavior. I've never talked about this public publicly. I've only talked about this with friends because I've felt so much shame around it. 

Jan: Mm-hmm. 

Patti: Because I was hiding food. I was starting to buy like sugary things and sweet things. 'cause I always ate healthy and I always, I, I, we would cook together healthy and all these things.

And I still struggled with my weight, but I always was healthy also. Um. So I was getting like sugary cereals or like, it was around Halloween, so I'd get Halloween candy or, and I would hide it and I would eat it, or I would get crappy donuts from the grocery store and I'd eat them in my car before and I'd put the wrappers in the garbage can outside so he didn't see it.

Jan: Did he shame you for your weight 

Patti: or 

Jan: did he ever say anything like, what's your problem? 

Patti: No, never. 

Jan: Okay, so you kind of were making that 

Patti: up? It was my own stuff, yeah. Okay. It was all, all my own stuff. Mm-hmm. No, he was always, you know, liked my body and was okay with it. I mean, I was smaller when we got together, but it wasn't ever really a thing for him and, and, mm-hmm.

Um, he had family, um, his mother's side of the family were larger women also, like aunts and stuff like that, that were larger. So I think it wasn't something that bothered him immensely. Um, but it was for me, I mean, these were all messages that I was telling myself constantly that I, every time I heard anything out in the, in the world, you know, about like a TV show that shows a guy dating, he's like, no, fatties.

I would just internalize it and I would internalize it and, and so. Everywhere around us should we choose to internalize it. It there's plenty of fodder for us to Yeah. To hate ourselves and so. I assumed, and I would feel like, well, he deserves somebody thinner, and that would be the thing for me is, and again, never, he never ever said anything like that, you know?

Wow. He was always really lovely in that way, but I was like, all these reasons. Yeah. 

Jan: Right. So the messages you were getting, I mean, were, some of it is education. 

Patti: Yeah. 

Jan: And you didn't have a great role model as your mother. Yeah. So that, that's a struggle. And then some of it was just all the trauma you had growing up as a kid.

Yeah. That was unprocessed. And you were using food Yes. To, um, medicate it. Um, just like people use alcohol to medicate issues or they use. Marijuana to, or drugs, you know, to medicate their issues because they're not dealing with them. Yes. And so, so that, and yours started yo-yoing for you so early 

Patti: Yeah.

Jan: That it's like a runaway bus, you know? 

Patti: Yeah. Like my body will never. Like I, and I'm, I am at peace with that, but like, even if I lose a lot of weight at this point, I'm gonna have saggy everything and like skin and like my body is never going to be what is deemed this beautiful thing. But so many bodies are not because they're beautiful, right.

Because we exist. And that's sort of the path I'm on now is like, how do I first start with acceptance? Mm-hmm. And then maybe we get to love, you know, like, let's start small. And start. 

Jan: Well, I think of marketing. Have you noticed it Even, which I think is great, is, you know, you go to card ca, you know catalogs online mm-hmm.

For clothes. Yeah. And they have models that are full figured. And I think 

Patti: that's 

Jan: great. 

Patti: Yeah. I remember, and it started actually around that time that we were living together that I started seeing that and I was like, oh my God, I'm actually able to buy cute clothes. 'cause you could never buy cute clothes when you were overweight.

Yeah. Like, you'd have to buy ugly things and, but now I can have my own. Style. Like I can actually buy clothes that I think are cute and that, that fit me. Mm-hmm. But, um, yeah, you know, it, it really. Has been quite the process of that. And so I gained a lot of weight during that period because I was starting this sneaky behavior and then that led to binge eating.

And so I, and I didn't purge, I just binged. So then I would get to a point, and by the time I was living here in my apartment by myself, so this is newer behavior for me. I was binging because it was the first time. 

Jan: Oh, how old are you now when you're starting this? 

Patti: 40. Oh. Uh. Probably in my mid to late thirties that I'm starting full binge eating.

Mm-hmm. Um, because now I think this was the first place I've lived in. I was alone. So then I was like, there's no shame and I could just eat, eat, eat. And I was dealing with grief of, of all that, you know, my friend passing away, I was dealing with grief of, and then COVID happened around that same time. I moved into my apartment in 2019 and then 2020 happened, and then I was still sort of.

Trying to figure out letting go of that partner even though we didn't live in the same state anymore. Like there's just a lot of stuff, right? 

Jan: Yeah. Yeah. 

Patti: And so I was doing all of that and, and I had a, a doctor who was kind of body Shay and you know, would say things like. Just pick a, a diet that your friend is doing that looks good and try that, which now of course I'm like, that is the worst possible advice that you could give somebody.

You know, she's like, let me explain how calor calor calories work. And I was like, I understand how calories work, lady. Like that's not the problem. I think you 

Jan: moron. Oh my 

Patti: God. Exactly. So now I have a, a doctor that, that doesn't do that and, and is respectful, but mm-hmm. Ultimately for me, seeing a nutritionist 

Jan: mm-hmm.

Patti: Was very helpful for me. Yes. Because I worried that it was gonna be, well, you can't eat this and you can't eat that. And it was actually very much the opposite of that. 

Jan: It's more about moderation, I think is what they do. And, and I remember when I was working in eating disordered clinic, that that's where it wasn't a diet, you're right, right.

It wasn't like counting calories. 

Patti: Mm-hmm. 

Jan: It's really about, um, eating well and being moderate. And, um, really feeling when you're full. Yeah. And being able to say, okay, that's it. I, I'm, I'm satiated and 

Patti: Right. 

Jan: And also doing your work, like getting to a therapist Yes. And working some of the stuff that's behind the scenes that's causing some of this.

Patti: Yeah. And, and here was the piece for her that I was really surprised about is, you know, we really talked through and I had to, you know, okay, this, these are the things I'm eating. She's like, what are you eating for breakfast? What are you eating for lunch? And she's like, well, you're not eating snacks. And I'm like, well, I'm not, you're not supposed to.

She's like, no, I want you to eat snacks. And then she'd go, well, why don't we do dessert? She's like, instead of you getting sugary cereals, and then you binging them because you're guilting yourself and feeling like a piece of garbage because now you've bought sugary cereal that you're going to eat. In one sitting, she's like, what if you have a bowl of sugary cereal for dessert?

And I was like, whoa, but that's, and she's like, yeah, that's okay. And so, and can we add a little peanut butter to it or add something to get, have protein. 'cause that helps with the sugar spike and suddenly. Everything changed because she gave me permission to eat. Mm-hmm. Like, you know, we have all these words and she's like, and she was like, respect, you're not eating enough carbs.

And she's like, that's why you feel the craving for sugar. That's why you feel these cravings that you're having. And then you binge because you keep yourself from eating them. And then when you say, okay, I'm gonna do it, and I would get these. Thought processes in my head where I would know several days before a binge that I was going to binge because I was starting to think about it.

I was starting to crave it, and I would pick a food and I would start obsessing about that food. And I would think about it constantly. It was really intense and I'd never experienced anything like it before. And so at some point I was like, I can only fight this for so long. Like I'm gonna go get that thing and I'm going to eat it.

Like that's what's gonna happen. Right. And I haven't had that now and. Two years, I think. Mm-hmm. And so, yeah, it's really fascinating when you are aware of what's happening in your body. And she was talking to me about vegetables. She's like, it's okay to have like carrots dipped in ranch. In fact, you need a little bit of fat in order for your body to absorb the nutrients.

Mm-hmm. And so again, we're, we're taught, well, if you're going to eat vegetables, you don't want to eat you, you know, you don't eat. Vegetables with ranch, that's off growth with garlic, with 

Jan: ranch, you know? 

Patti: Right. Whatever. 

Jan: Yeah. 

Patti: Or whatever. But the reality is when you start to really know how your body absorbs nutrients, it changes everything for you.

So this 

Jan: is more on the cat education. Yes. See, this is the education that's really important. Mm-hmm. 

Patti: Yeah. And, and not shaming myself. Mm-hmm. And also when I. Would eat a certain type of food. Why? What was the reason for it? Did I just crave it and I wanted something sweet and that was acceptable and how did I feel about it?

Right? And then it's challenging my feelings now about it, right? So that's where also therapy starts coming into play of like, okay, I felt crappy. Why did I feel crappy? Is it okay? Here's a great example. So, um, you know, I just had kind of an intense couple of weeks with some personal things happening and.

I was like. For the first time in a while, I felt the voice and I was like, I just wanna eat some donuts. And so I was like, I'm gonna eat some donuts and I am gonna be okay with it. Mm-hmm. And that was that. And therefore I went and I bought donuts. And I ate donuts. And I said, I am eating my feelings right now because I've had a really bad couple of weeks and I want to, so 

Jan: doing it consciously.

Patti: Yeah. And then that was it. Mm-hmm. I was done and it didn't continue and I didn't have another voice and I just was like, and I wasn't upset about it. I didn't. Think about it in some kind of way. I was just like, I'm eating these donuts and I appreciated them and they were delicious and I felt better in my feelings.

I could have chosen not to do that and done something else, but I chose to do that and that that was okay. So I think there's a whole process of it, but I think finding your way to like accepting that behavior, I think is a. Big deal. Like mm-hmm. Yeah. Like not hating myself, like that's been Right. A, a part of it.

So. It's really interesting the journey of it. 

Jan: Yeah. So hating yourself. Right. I mean, 'cause you know, it's very interesting as I listen to you, Patty, my, my, uh, journey with, uh, and I was never formally diagnosed with eating disorder. Yeah. Was all about being thin and I was, I I weigh, I was five foot six and weighed 110 pounds.

Patti: Oh 

Jan: wow. 'cause I was competing. Yes. Yeah. Because for me, I was a dancer. I was in, when I was in college, I joined a dance company and a dance program, and it's all about looking at how thin everybody is. Yeah. And how thin you can get. Mm-hmm. So that's what it's all about, you know? And. And it ran in my family.

My mother was a little overweight. Um, well, not a little, maybe more than a little. And so, uh, you know, then it was due to my father and a lot of my, my uncles, they were all about really objectifying young women, being young and thin and all that. So I kind of learned that that's the way to be find acceptance.

Mm-hmm. So when I went off to college. There, there was this place called Joe's Donuts, and at 12 o'clock at night, we'd all go out and we'd just go by a dozen of them and eat them. And I came back and I would feel so sick that I would throw up. I would, so that's how I started managing it. I thought, okay, now I can, I can eat anything I want to.

I just keep, you know, binging and purging. 

Patti: Yeah. 

Jan: And I now, I never even knew when I was doing that, that that was called binging and purging. Bulimia. Yeah. I had no idea. And, um, no one talked to me about it, but I was using it to help me, uh, stay really thin and that's what I did. And so I stayed pretty thin and, uh, that's what was I was doing.

But for all the people who have used that, you know, you destroy your teeth. I don't know if you know that. Did you know that? Yeah, 

Patti: absolutely. Yeah. It, it removes the enamel. Plus it can give you a lot of issues in your esophagus. 

Jan: That's right. With your esophagus. Yep. Mm-hmm. It's very dangerous. Yeah. And. And then withholding being anorexic.

You know, I remember the women in the program I was working in, they would, they would have to be weighed in, which I always thought was kind of crazy, but they had to, 'cause it was more of an inpatient facility and they would drink pickle juice. Have you ever heard of that? Mm-hmm. They drink pickle juice to, because it's full of salt and it would make them gain more weight so that they would pass.

Oh, wow. And it was crazy that a lot of 'em that wouldn't, uh, then, like I said, we had to send them to an inpatient hospital and they were, they, we always had to threaten 'em. We're gonna then have you, you know, line fed with a tube down your nose. But it's, it's brutal. I think some of that, you know, treatment, I, I don't know where it is today as far as treating eating disorders, but the way we were doing this, and this was, let's see, th uh, I've been in practice for 31 years, so this is like 30 years ago.

And that's brutal. Um, just thinking about it, especially after hearing your story and how working with, um, someone who is a dietician who can teach you about normal moderation and about eating well and what's happening in your body, and you feeling like it's a choice, rather that someone's doing it to you.

Patti: Right. 

Jan: So 

Patti: yeah. 

Jan: Anyway, that today, uh, so much, I mean, I think it's going on all the time. Uh, you know, sometimes I see women and they're really, really thin and fragile, and I look at them and I think they're struggling with bulimia and, and you can tell that. And of course. That ruins your bones. I mean, when you're talking about '

Patti: cause you're malnourished.

Yeah, yeah. Anytime you're on. Right. So I mean, and that's the problem is the extremes on either side of an eating disorder is dangerous for your health. I mean, if you're really thin, you. Yeah, it destroys your bones and it destroys your everything, really. Mm-hmm. I mean, because you're so malnourished, you're, you start losing your hair because you're super anemic typically.

Um, there's a lot of things that you're 

Jan: losing your periods, you don't have periods anymore. 

Patti: Yeah. 

Jan: Correct. A lot of the dancers. I used to dance with, they didn't have menstrual periods anymore because they were so thin and, you know, all of your hormones go off. I mean, it's just unbelievable. And yet it's, it's everywhere in this world, the message that's out there, and everyone's struggling with it, either secretly or they're finally doing something about it.

It. 

Patti: Yeah. And I think that it has to start from a place of, I think therapy is a huge piece of it, because there's a reason that it began, right? And whatever that looks like. And for me, I was able to piece that, right? And I've been able to, again, it's all in retrospect. 'cause at the time it was just what it was, and it was always.

Shame. Shame, shame, shame, shame. I'm a terrible person. I'm like, I remember being in middle school and this guy, some jerk kid, he was just a kid. Middle school is brutal. And he walked by me and I was standing somewhere. He's like, oh, sorry, I didn't see the two of you there. And I was like the two of me. And it was just me, you know?

And that to this day, I'm 45 and I remember that moment. So like these, you still 

Jan: hear that in your 

Patti: head? Yes. I still hear that. I was not, a few years ago, I was taking my garbage out and two teenage boys was like, Hey, fat ass. And I was like, and I came in and I started sobbing. Even I was a grown adult because it was just this, like when people say the thing that you feel inside, and so now it's um, like a defense mechanism.

That's what I'm working on now with my therapist. We're working on, with my body, we're working on. 'cause I'll say things that'll be like, oh yeah, I'm blah blah. Like I tried to. Let people know or rec, like if I'm gonna see somebody, just so you know, I've gained a lot of weight since you've last seen me.

Like, come on Patty. Like you don't need to to do that before people see you because it's this, for me, it's protection. Right. Which actually brings up another point is that when a lot of people, when they deal with especially sexual abuse or sexual assault. Sometimes weight gain will come with that because it's a protection of their body.

Yeah, 

Jan: it's protection. I was just gonna say that. Mm-hmm. That's exactly what it is. 

Patti: Yeah. 

Jan: And so there's that, and then there's this whole category. I just thought of this as, uh, people who are overweight and they do bariatric surgery. Yes. 

Patti: Mm-hmm. 

Jan: And what happens is if they don't deal with what was the issues of gut getting them eating, they gain all the weight back.

I've, I have a couple friends of mine, uh, colleagues of mine that that happened to. And Yeah, and you know, it, it's like I said, now we're. We're again, talking about how important therapy is and working with this mm-hmm. And making it known and, and really doing, you know, your best to heal yourself here because 

Patti: Yeah.

Jan: Otherwise your body and, and physically just takes a huge toll on you. 

Patti: Yeah. There's a lot with the LPs right now too, and, and people taking these shots for it. And that's my, um, concern is I had, not my doctor, but a. Somebody I know their doctor was suggesting to him, you know, well, you know, we're getting a lot of good, you know, uh, responses with this, and if you just take the shot, you know, you'll start losing weight and stuff.

And, and he was kind of telling me his case for it and why he was. And I was like, well, maybe, you know, like, and I've thought about should I do that, should I not? And I, I refuse to do it unless I have gotten to a point where I feel really. Secure and strong in how I am eating and those behaviors, and that if at that point I want to use it as a helping thing to get me over a hump or to a point, great.

But I am not doing it for me personally. I won't do it as a, I'm gonna get ahead and lose some weight because I don't want to gain it back if I stop and I still, this isn't. Over for me. You know, this is going to be something, this struggle with my body, your life for the rest of my life. You know, and this is one of the challenges that I have and, and I think for me.

One of the things that helps me a little bit with the shame around my body when, you know it's hard to be in the world, sometimes in a big body because you feel like people are looking at you or they make assumptions like that you're X, y, z, fill in the, you know, um. 

Jan: Yep. 

Patti: But what I do is I remember that we all have our stuff.

My stuff is visible. Mm-hmm. That's the difference, right. But you have stuff. Mine is, they have stuff, right? Yeah. 

Jan: Yes. 

Patti: And when I was with my ex, that was one of the moments. One of the things is like you said, it was similar to somebody who's drinking or like an addiction. And that's what I would think about when I was eating.

I'm like, I could relate to what he was going through on a very small level because it's not the same. Yeah. But like. With him and alcohol. I would relate in that way with me and this binge that I was starting and this food hiding 'cause he would hide alcohol and I would hide food. And here we were a great match.

Hiding things from each other that we felt shameful about and to try to be like, we're great. Look at us. We're super healthy. But we're both hiding these things, right? And so I could relate to that, and it's such a process for us to have to go through just to like at the base point, be like, Hey, I'm messed up.

I have stuff, or I'm not messed up. I mean, I don't like saying it that way, but I have stuff. But we all do. And I'm working on it. Yeah. And my stuff is always gonna be visible because. It's in my body. 

Jan: Now, the, the only thing I know is because we haven't done our episode on this, but, uh, when you have joints mm-hmm.

Like my knees and my hips and, um, I've had my hips replaced and now gonna be having my knee replaced is some doctors, especially later on in people's lives, if they're over overweight, it really wears out the joints. And they won't do, they won't do it. You've gotta lose some weight. Mm-hmm. Before we give you these new knees because you're gonna end up having to get new ones.

Right. Very soon. And they gave me, you know, a lifetime of 18 to 20 years for each hip. And it's been longer than that, I think, in my left hip. But you know, I don't pound on it. I keep my weight off. I take good care of it. 'cause I don't really wanna have surgery again. Yeah. So I think that's, that's the only time when a GLP one might be useful.

To help your health because of joints. If, if that's an issue, you may not even have arthritis. So it's not a problem. 

Patti: Right. And not only that, and so I agree with that completely, that there are other ways, and I mean the real thing with GLP and why it originally started was to help with diabetes. And so if you're struggling with diabetes, then absolutely that is something that helps do it.

And that is known to help because it does help you lose weight. It does help you get your sugar, your A1C in a better place. That. And, and I know somebody who's doing GOP and she is seeing like, she's almost like normal everything at this point from using it. So Nice. Absolutely. Like use it if it's, if it's being prescribed by your doctor for health reasons, like, or I know somebody who had one of the surgeries because she has, um, heart disease in her family and for her it was like, you know what, this is worth it for me.

And she's working really hard to exactly keep the weight where it is and keep it off. You know, but for her, that was more the impetus than just losing weight, right? It was a push for, well, this is what I need for my health. So there's that piece of it too, right? 

Jan: Exactly. 

Patti: Yeah. 

Jan: Yeah. So there's a lot of resources out there, I think, in this day and age, right?

Patti: Yeah. 

Jan: So what are some of the resources that you have found really, really important? You're nutritionist, right? 

Patti: Yeah. So I would say hands down. A dietician, nutritionist, um, one who is a health at every size. Um, nutritionist is really helpful because they are not necessarily looking at your eating as a, as a focus of losing weight.

And I think that. That's where I'm at is like, my goal isn't to lose weight, my goal is to be healthy, and so mm-hmm. Being healthy for me is going to include weight loss, and that's a part of that. Mm-hmm. So it's a secondary goal, but it's a part, the goal for me, it's not 

Jan: the goal. Right. 

Patti: Right. Because if, if the goal is weight loss, that's a trigger for me.

And I start to feel shame and I start to feel these things. So I think it's being really aware of. Therapy. First of all, therapy, therapy, therapy always, I think is really helpful to, to help a good therapist, a good therapist, and again, the same, somebody who's not going to shame your body, shame anything that you've experienced, but to find some of the sources of why you're eating the way you are, why you're struggle or not eating the way you are, whatever that looks like.

And then also the struggle with. Your body because there's, there's body image that comes along with all of this. So how do we get to a point? Oh, that's 

Jan: true. 

Patti: Yeah. Eating disorder or not, we all have body image issues, but like how do we get to that point where, again, I think I was talking to somebody and they were like, they started by just looking in the mirror and saying, I'm not mutated.

Cool. That's a way that I can say, okay, my body is in a good place. Right? And then it just increases a little bit, 

Jan: is how you 

Patti: find 

Jan: that. I think body issues. I mean, especially you're in your forties, right? Yeah. Um, but once you go through menopause, here's another, another issue of menopause is that your body, women's body, because their ovaries stop producing any kinds of estrogen.

Yeah. But the estrogen is stored in the back. Yep. And so most women who are, uh, in menopause or have finished menopause and they have extra fat, which has been a little hard for me. Yeah. Being that I was a dancer and I was like as thin, they used to call me the zipper because I would stand sideways and stick my tongue out, and you couldn't see anything.

I was just like, nothing was there. And so, you know, now it's like, uh, me even just getting some, uh hmm. I wouldn't say joy. I would say getting some acceptance of the fact that okay, I'm gonna be about 10 pounds more than I used to be when I was in my thirties. Yeah. And you know, it's okay, Jan. It's okay.

You know, and you're still okay. You know, and 

Patti: yeah. 

Jan: So I'm working it from the other end. 

Patti: Yeah. Yeah. 

Jan: You know, but we're all having to work this at some point. I mean, 

Patti: yeah. 

Jan: I'm sure men go through it. I know men through it. 

Patti: Yeah. I think that's a good point. 

Jan: Women. 

Patti: I think that's a good point is eating disorders do not affect just women.

They affect men as well. And so be gentle with that and aware of that. Um, yeah, a lot of the things of like examples, I did wanna share this, of disordered eating kind of behaviors would be chronic diet dieting, constant food guilt, labeling foods as good or bad skipping meals to make up for eating obsessive calorie tracking.

Exercising to earn or burn food, binge restrict cycles, anxiety about eating in front of others, feeling morally better or worse based on what you ate and body checking, you know, your mirror weighing yourself. All of those tend to mean that you may have some eating, some disordered eating behaviors and it might be important to look 

Jan: at.

Yeah, there is. And now there is one thing you did say there. There's a big thing that has been going on is intermittent fasting. 

Patti: Yes. 

Jan: Yeah. Have you heard of that? 

Patti: Yeah. Yeah. 

Jan: And I've gotta tell you that I did that and I lost like 10 pounds and it was great. And it's really taught me. A lot about, you know, it, it's eating to live rather than living to eat and being able to, okay.

So I, and actually, you know, that's one thing that anorexics love is that they actually start feeling high because they haven't, um, been eating. It's a, is a euphoria that they get, but, uh, it's not that way with intermittent fasting. It has to do, you can do it programmed, especially for your age. And I think some people have had success with it, and I have.

And so I, I don't know. I'm not a doctor, I'm not a nutritionist. Um, yeah. Or a dietician, but I would imagine that some people have success with that and it works for 'em. So I, 

Patti: yeah. 

Jan: You know, I just wanna throw that out there too. 'cause that's a big thing in this day and age. 

Patti: Yeah. And I think that's brings a great point of, there's lots of, I think methods if, if you're going for weight loss, there's a lot of ways to do that.

And I think, um, doing it with a doctor, um, and a dietician together, I think is a really great direction to do with that because you wanna be careful. You wanna be careful when you are looking at diets because you don't wanna pick things that are going to trigger some of these behaviors, or you wanna be aware of that.

So I think that's a great point. Mm-hmm. But yeah, I've heard a lot of really good things about intermittent fasting and I think that there are, 

Jan: yeah, 

Patti: some things that suggest it's good for your health as well. So yeah, I think that's a great, that's a great thing. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Yeah. 

Jan: Well. 

Patti: We'll definitely have some resources, um, in the post with this.

Jan: And we'll be interviewing, uh, my friend of mine, uh, Lynn, and she'll be coming on, uh, in our next, I guess, additional podcast that we do with this. So 

Patti: yeah. Awesome. Thanks, Dan. Okay. 

Jan: Well great. Thanks Patty for all you're sharing. I appreciate it. Yeah, thanks for listening to the podcast. If you like what you've heard, please share it with friends.

Subscribe and leave a review. 

Patti: And remember, information shared on this podcast is not medical advice. If you have a concern about your physical or mental health, please seek support from a professional. 

Jan: If you have a story you'd like to share about things your mother forgot to mention, you can apply to be a guest.

Patti: We'd also love to hear a quick 92nd thing you've learned in your life. 

Jan: You can find links to both of those over at our website at 

Patti: things my mother forgot to mention.com or in the show notes. 

Jan: Thank you.