The Money Talk We Still Need Today with Briana Williams

We’ve discussed many taboo topics on this podcast, but we’ve overlooked a big one until now. Money! That’s why we brought in financial empowerment coach Briana Williams to help us get honest about it.

Briana's own money story starts with $110,000 in debt and she walks us through exactly how she climbed out of it, what she'd do differently, and why she thinks most of us were never taught any of this in the first place. We get into the shame that creeps in around money, why budgeting doesn't have to mean saying no to everything you love, and the surprisingly simple way to start investing even if you think it's not for you.

Here's a taste of what's inside:

• Why Briana graduated with $110,000 in debt, and how she paid it all off
• The $2-a-month investing trick that makes the whole thing feel less scary
• What financial advisors don't always tell you about how they get paid
• Joint account or separate? We debate it, and we don't fully agree
• The books that changed how we think about money and self-worth

If you've ever felt behind on money, or too embarrassed to even bring it up, this conversation is for you. It's never too late to start, and you don't have to figure it out alone.

About Briana:

Briana Williams helps women rewrite their relationship with money so they can create deeper relationships, more purposeful work, and a bigger, wilder, and more abundant life.

Through practical financial strategy and intuitive coaching, she guides women toward aligned spending, intentional wealth-building, and the clarity to make empowered decisions in every area of their lives.

Briana's Website: https://wildsoulwork.com

Find resources mentioned in this episode here.

Learn more about this podcast here.

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*Information shared on this podcast is not medical advice. If you have a concern about your physical or mental health, please seek support from a proessional.

Transcript

Jan: Welcome to Things My Mother Forgot to Mention. 

Patti: The podcast where we say everything our mothers didn't. 

Jan: I'm Jan, a trauma therapist and author turned rogue storyteller, here to talk openly about the body, aging, and all the wait what moments of womanhood. 

Patti: And I'm Patty, an online business and tech nerd whose purpose is to elevate the voices of women in our world and who doesn't believe in taboo topics.

Things My Mother Forgot to Mention is the podcast for every woman who's ever said, "Wait, why didn't anyone mention this to me?" 

Jan: Join Jan and Patty, two outspoken, curious, outrageous women as they dive headfirst into a messy, magical, and often WTF realities of aging, health, and quite simply, being a woman.

From rogue chin hairs and vaginal thinning- To mental health, perimenopause, and scalp cancer. Yes, really. 

Patti: Nothing is off limits. It's funny, it's raw, it's real talk your mother definitely skipped. 

Jan: Let's get into it 

Patti: Hi, Jan. 

Jan: Hey there, Patty. How you doing? 

Patti: I'm good. How are you? 

Jan: I'm doing pretty good. 

Patti: Sounds convincing.

Jan: I'm, I'm, uh, you know, I keep... People who listen to this episode, I am recovering from a knee replacement, so it's a long haul. Yeah. And, uh, I, I would have to say I've turned the corner, so I'm happy. 

Patti: Good. That's great. 

Jan: Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

Patti: Yeah. I know it's been not the easiest, uh, recovery process yet, so. 

Jan: No. Yeah. It isn't.

Patti: Yeah. Well- But- ... we're not talking about anything to do with joints today, though No, 

Jan: we're 

Patti: not. Thank God 

Jan: we're not talking about that, right. We're talking today differently about financing and, and- Yeah ... women and, uh, their spending and saving and, and, uh, we have a guest with us. 

Patti: Yeah. 

Jan: So, uh, her name is Brianna Williams, uh, helps women rewrite their relationship with money so they can create deeper relationships, more purposeful work, and a bigger, wilder, and more abundant life.

Through her practical financial strategy and intuitive coaching, she guides women toward an aligned spending, intentional wealth building, and the clarity to make empowered decisions in every area of their lives. And so we're speaking to Brianna, so welcome. 

Patti: Well, thank you so much. You even said my name correctly, Brianna.

Jan: Oh, good. Good. 

Patti: It's nice to have you here. I'm so excited. Um- I am as well. Yeah. So start by telling us a little bit about... 'Cause everybody, I think, has such different relationships with money, and one of the reasons, um, that I'm excited about this conversation is because talking about money in a lot of ways can be really taboo in our society.

Mm-hmm. And it's something for me that I've never felt uncomfortable with. I'm like, "You wanna know how much I make? I'll tell you how much I make." If you wanna, like, you know... I don't care about that stuff, 'cause I think it's important, and so I love that you're doing work to make people- Mm-hmm ... women specifically, feel more comfortable with that.

Um, so tell us a little bit about your relationship with money, and like, did, what did your mother tell you or not tell you- Or not 

Jan: tell you ... 

Patti: about money? 

Briana: Yeah, that, that, that's a good thing, you know. So like a lot of the work that I've done has come through my own struggles with it. And, um, just growing up, you know, I've always been able to like have multiple incomes.

I've always like just found little jobs here and there and, but I never knew what to do with the money. Oh, right. And so I'd end up just spending it, buying things, whatever. And then I'd, um, but I never had like a good, you know, like a high-paying job. It was always like working at different coffee shops and whatever, but I, you know, had a lot of jobs, and so I s- had a lot of money, but then I...

I mean, not a lot of money, but like, you know, a little bit. And then I went back to, or I went to college and, you know, I made the mistake of- Going to college to figure out what I wanted to do rather than figuring out what I wanted to do- Mm ... and then if it required college- Then go to 

Jan: college. You're good.

Right. Mm-hmm. 

Briana: Yeah. So I had multiple, um, d- major changes throughout college and a lot of growth and exploration along the way, but when I graduated college, you know, and I transferred college along the way, I graduated college with almost, almost at that point, uh, o- almost like, um, like $80,000 in student loans.

Wow. And then I couldn't get a job other than like, you know- Yeah ... like a regular minimum wage job. Like, I couldn't... No one would hire me, so I went back to school to get my MBA. They had a program where I could kinda use my credits- Wow ... toward it, and I was able to complete that in a little less than, uh, two years, and ended up...

By the time I was completely done, I had $110,000 

Jan: in student 

Briana: loans. Yikes. $10,000 of my student loan was on a credit card for like, like- Oh my gosh. Oh 

Jan: my gosh. 

Briana: You know, because I was, like, in an emergency panic situation, and I thought they weren't gonna give me d- my diploma unless I figured it out, so I put it on a credit card, which was a bad decision, and it took me a long time.

Like, I felt so trapped and stuck- Mm-hmm. Yeah ... with that debt that was looming over me. And so, you know, I finally, like, different jobs along the way, like I was able to like kinda work my way up, and it was a struggle, and then I finally paid off my student loan. But it felt like everything in my life was put on hold.

Like, having a family was something that I always wanted, and that was put on hold, everything, because I knew I didn't wanna have that debt looming over me. I didn't wanna have that, like- The weight of that Yeah So, you know, over, eventually I did get it, I got it all paid off. It was a big celebration day.

Um, and I never wanna have to go back to that. But I also, I never knew how to invest. Like, I could have done it so much differently. Right. If I had known what I know now, I would be set. You know, 20 years ago, I would be- Yes ... sure. 

Jan: I was just... So your mother, I mean, probably didn't know anything about finances either, or did she, did y- your parents do any of that teaching to you or nothing?

Briana: There was never conversations about it. Yeah. Like, if anything, it was like, you know, and my parents did the best they could. Like, they loved us, and we were always like- Sure ... taken care of. Um, but yeah, it was like, you know, like, if we needed money for something, she'd give me her card. I'd go to the bank. I'd get, you know, a little, whatever she told me, I like, get a little bit of money out to spend on things.

And then I started working and having my own jobs, but there was never... I think at one point she tried to show me how to balance a checkbook, which I absolutely- ... thought before. I'm like, "This is my..." Like, I hated balancing checkbooks. I never balance a checkbook anymore. Um, and but never, never anything about investing.

I don't even think my parents really understood- 

Jan: Did they do- ... investing ... right, mm-hmm. 

Briana: Yeah. They, I mean, they had- Mm-hmm ... something through their jobs. They both worked at, like, different, like, they both worked in the hospital at different places, and they had some kind of, like, investment plan through their hospital.

We've never had conversations about that. Really? I don't think I've ever had a conversation with my parents about how they're planning for their future. Wow. And at one point, it was right before my mom retired, and this is a few years ago. She started, she hired a financial advisor, and that's who she works with to manage her money.

Um, you know, and I al- I've asked her questions about this too. I'm like, "How is he getting paid?" Right? 'Cause this is a big thing a lot of people don't know. They'll hire a financial investor- How are they getting paid? ... to manage their fund. Yeah, their funds. And but, and they're like, "Well, I don't pay him upfront.

He..." You know, like, "I don't know how they're getting paid. I don't pay them upfront." Yeah. Then he, you're pay- they're, you're overpaying him, right? Like, 'cause they're taking, they're taking fees. They're getting paid. Right. They're not doing this for free. Right. And so I think that's something that's dangerous is, like, a lot of financial advisors, like, and they might be the nicest people in the world- Yeah

but they're, you know, this is how they get paid. It's how their fee structure's set up. And I don't mean them ill by, by saying this, but they're not picking stocks for you that are working in your favor. They're picking stocks- Mm ... that give them a cut, you know? And that's just the way that the system's set up.

And so a lot of people don't even know any other alternative and- 

Patti: Yeah ... 

Briana: yeah. So yes. 

Patti: Yeah. So, so then how did... So you didn't have this sort of example of learning, you know, to deal with money. You got in a situation when you're like, "Oh, wow, okay, now I'm over $100,000 in debt." And so what was the process for you?

Like, h- did you learn it on your own, or what did that look like for you to then figure out? Because, like, if I had $110,000 in debt, I wouldn't know where to start to do it well, and, and how do I get rid of that? Like, a lot of people live with that kind of debt for the rest- Yeah ... of their lives. 

Briana: Yeah. 

Patti: So how did you figure out that, that process?

Briana: Very messily. Sloppily. Yeah. Um, yeah, you know, I wish I had had somebody kind of guiding me through it. Like, I felt like I was always in this hustle place of like, "Okay, I just need to stay above water." Like, I- 

Patti: Yeah ... 

Briana: I took a couple temp jobs, but they were temp jobs, and when I got let go from those jobs, I was, like, stuck in this place of like, "Oh, my God, now what?"

Right? So eventually I did a lot of networking, and I finally, um, was able to get a, a decent paying job. Um, you know, got, got laid off from that one, and then, um, switched to another job. Ended up moving out to Seattle, and then, and then I was able to negotiate better once I finally started getting, like, good, high-paying jobs.

I would hop jobs and take another job, and that was honestly the best way to get a raise rather than staying with one thing. Mm. 

Patti: Yeah. 

Briana: Um, and so I was able to, um, make good money, but I didn't have a plan. I was just like, "I need to get the debt paid off." I could've done it so much faster if I was, like, keeping track of my money.

But I was in, like, this, this rat race of, "I just need to get the debt paid off." Um, but I was also spending money. Like, I was buying my lunch out every day 'cause I didn't have the capacity- Right ... to make food, right? Yeah. And I was buying coffee every day to, like, to keep stimulated in order to focus to do my job.

Yeah. And if I'd had a plan, like, I would've had my debt paid off so much sooner- And then even once I got my debt paid off, I still didn't know, okay, now we're, we're making money, we're bringing income in, but I didn't know where to put that money. Yeah. I didn't know how to think about my future- Yeah ... and what I wanted.

And so that- Yeah, 

Jan: that's the thing. Future. 

Briana: Yes. Right. Yeah. Yes, future planning. 

Patti: Yeah. 

Jan: I was gonna say, um, 

Briana: back 

Jan: to what we were talking about before- Yeah ... is, um, so I'm a, a therapist, and so I used to work with couples. And there were a lot of couples that ended up in divorce, and these women had, you know, were taken care of, you know?

They, their husbands made a lot of money. They lived in really nice suburbs of Boston. And, and so, uh, then follow through, they get divorced, they, everything splits in half, and they don't know anything about what money they got, what they do with it, how- Yes ... you know, they're living, how do you live on what now that you have?

And they're totally overwhelmed. They're just, they're like, you know, uh, they're just frightened. Wow. Mostly, yes. Yes. I'm sure you deal with people like that, right? 

Briana: Yeah. Yeah. And, and deal with... No, not deal with. I have the honor of working with and supporting women who've gone through that, yes. Mm-hmm. And it is...

So I'm gonna say a couple things about that, is like one, it's like culturally ingrained in us- 

Jan: Yes ... 

Briana: women to be dependent on a man. I mean, look back hundreds of years ago- Yeah ... and there was the patriarchal system where women couldn't even own property. We were treated like- 

Patti: And less than 100 years ago. It- 

Briana: Yes.

Patti: Yeah. 

Briana: Yes. Yeah. Yes. 10 years ago. And it's just astounding to me. 

Patti: Yeah, no, but realistically, it's what... It, it, it is like 50 or 60 years ago. It was- Yeah. It 

Jan: would be. I 

Patti: would say- ... '70s- ... or- I think was, it was something in the '70s, right, or '80s when women were finally able to have their own credit cards. Is that right?

Briana: So, so what I, so what I've learned, Lissa, um, women were legally allowed to open their bank account, I forget when that came about, in the 1900s, but a lot of bankers would still require the women to have a male cosigner- Mm ... before they'd let them open an account. And that d- didn't become illegal until 1974, which is- Wow

really, you know- Yeah ... not that long ago. Yeah. Yeah, and it's still ingrained in us culturally where we just, we, we believe, like, messages of, like, in our society, like, women aren't good with money, which isn't true at all. Right. Like, women are actually really good with money when we're taught. This stuff isn't taught in our schools.

No. Our parents don't always know to teach us, right? Like, my, my parents didn't know. Um, and it's just, you know, where do we get the information? And so we grow up with this shame story of, like, "I should be doing it, but I don't even, I don't even know what I should be doing." Right. So. 

Patti: Yeah. 

Briana: I, I'm curious about you.

You said that you have a very different story, that you have grown up more empowered with money. Or something like that. Well, 

Jan: like, I have the same story, uh, uh, as you, meaning I used to just get the credit card and I'd go buy whatever I wanted to. My, and my dad made all the money and my mom was a stay-at-home mom.

And, and so she's one of those that didn't know how to do anything with money but spend it. And so when I got to college, you know, he paid for everything. I just used the credit card. But when I got married that was- Yeah ... a different story. And, uh, then I started learning from my husband things like a 401, like, "What's that?"

You know? And, you know, saving in every, you know, month when paychecks would come in, I'd wanna spend it all and he's like, "Nope. This will be... This percentage is gonna go to savings." And so, you know, that's what we planned on, and, uh, our goals for that, and we're, "It's gonna be in this fund, in this fund." And so he started teaching me, and then he made me Listen to me.

Maybe, maybe learn QuickBooks. Uh, because when I started my private practice and my businesses, uh, he's like, "I, I'm not taking care of those. Y- you gotta do that." Mm-hmm. So he taught me a lot about that, and then I got into learning about, you know, spending, expenses, income, you know, all those things. And, um, it...

So I kind of... And then when we got, our kids got older, we got a college fund for them when they were born. So I'm like, "What? What do I have to do that for?" You know? But from the very be- I think the message is it, isn't what do I do with my future? Women don't think about that, but that's such a big message.

I mean, maybe even some men don't even think about that. Yeah. Yeah. But, uh, I'm, it's not just, you know, women who have that problem, and everybody spends whatever they make, and that's where you get into trouble. And so my husband said, "No, it's different," 'cause, you know, we, we think that we're gonna be taken care of by the government, and that's just not gonna be true.

Who knows what's gonna be in the future? So- Yeah ... so he taught me a lot about that. I was resistant. I was pretty resentful, but I'm very thankful. Tell 

Briana: me about that. What was the 

Jan: resistance? The resi- uh, just like, you know, learning to do QuickBooks and to look at what expenses were and what expenses were being...

But it's so- Yeah ... once I figured out, I could look at my business and I could see income, expenses, where the expenses were- Mm-hmm ... what percentage, you know, all those things that would tell me how the business is doing. It's like a, you know, a thermometer. It's like to h- is it healthy or is it dying, you know?

Yeah. And, uh, 

and I just, that's what I thought was really helpful. And then I was like, "Yeah, I wanna know about this." So- Yeah ... and I'm not an expert at it, but I definitely enjoy it more because I feel like, uh, as we've gotten, um, a little bit older than everybody here, uh, in our senior years here, it's really nice to know, as hard as it was saving then, 'cause, you know, you're living check, pay, paycheck to paycheck, is what was great is once you got to the point where you're saving money and you see it, and we had a, you know, someone who does all of our kind of investments, and my husband watches all that and has learned from that.

I even go to those meetings, and I'm sit there listening to the meetings of, you know, all these things. I'm like, "What's that? N- what are they talking about?" So, uh, I think I recommend everybody do that, and the resistance we have to say, "I'm not... I don't wanna learn it," I don't know where that comes from. I mean, I think that's not- Mm

being responsible as a human being and, and taking care of yourself. So anyway. 

Briana: Well, I mean, and I don't know that it necessarily comes from irresponsibility. I think a lot of it, like, it's trained in us, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Like, especially women, we're learned dependency. We need to be dependent- Mm ... upon a man.

But then like you said, if that, if that, if there's a split, if there's a breakup or divorce- Which is 

Jan: one out of every two. That's how it is. 

Briana: Yeah. And, and so I, I think a, I think there's a, it's a lot deeper. There's a lot deeper psychological layers- Mm ... to, like, that- Yeah ... resistance around it. But, you know, especially with women, and men have their own stories.

We have our own thing. I'm curious if you know where your husband learned to handle money. Like, did, did he have someone teach him? Well, he learned as 

Jan: an accountant. Okay. So he, as an accountant, he would sit and, you know, run through businesses and ch- you know, do all their, their, their, you know, taxes and everything.

Yeah. And so when I started having my own business, that's where I learned a lot of it, 'cause- Mm ... he was teaching me, "This is what you look at. This is the bottom- Yeah ... line. These are the taxes. This is an expense. This isn't... You can't use that as an expense." Yeah. And so, uh, and where did he learn it from? His father.

Mm. I don't think his father did v- his mom certainly didn't do it, so, uh, osmosis? I mean, I don't know. No. 

Patti: But he did go to school- Yeah ... to become an accountant, presumably. Yes, he 

Jan: did. Yeah. Yeah, he did. 

Patti: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I think that, like, I think there's a lot of shame that, that comes with money. So that's something that I've dealt with.

And Brianna and I have worked together- Mm ... in various ways, um, where I've supported her in her business, and recently she and I met and talked about some of my money stuff as well, which is kind of what led me to be like, "Oh wow, I think you'd be great for this podcast." And one of the things that I found is that I have a lot of shame around money.

Mm. And for me, it's because I was never taught, but I feel like, in, like in so many ways in, in our world and our society, that, that I should just know how to do that stuff. And so because I don't do it well or I never learned how to do it or figured it out, therefore I have shame- Yeah, that's what, yeah. Mm

because I have debt and I, you know, like I said, I don't have, I don't have- Right ... a safety net. I don't have, you know, all of these things, and I'm a business owner so I feel like, oh, well, I should have these things, and I'm paying myself, and, you know, and, and I pay attention to my numbers and I know it's happening, but I still am struggling financially in a lot of ways.

And so I find that, that I have a lot of shame around- Mm ... that. And so I think that, in my, my side of it, then I think sometimes for women or people in general, we put our heads in the sand because we're afraid to look at it because it's embarrassing or we're, we feel- Mm ... shameful about it, you know? 

Briana: And I think what you're doing here just naming it is like bringing it into the light and making it less shameful.

And every woman listening to your podcast right now is feeling that and saying, "Oh my gosh, me too." Mm-hmm. Yeah. And it is so common to have so much shame around that for exactly the reasons you've said. 

Patti: Mm-hmm. 

Briana: Yeah. But it's not, it's not your fault. It's not. Because when was it ever your fault? Mm-mm. Unless you, you know, unless you're lucky- Yeah

like Jann and you have a husband who's like, "I'm gonna show you." Yeah. "I'm gonna show you how to do it." 

Jan: Yeah. I think, Brianna, though, uh, you know, it is cultural and it's, it's not their fault. But I, what I was kind of talking about is that then when you're out on your own, I think women really forget to think about the future.

Maybe they're looking for another man or, or going back to an old safe pattern that's gonna help them. Mm-hmm. But it's like taking... it's, this is about being respons- taking your own life- Yeah. Yeah ... in your own... You know, I can make a choice. I can do this and I can do that. And a lot of women don't know how to do that, so.

Briana: Yeah. Right. And a lot of it's just not knowing where to start- Right ... and having, you know, having some, some kind of guidance through that. 

Jan: And- So where 

Briana: do 

Jan: you start? ... 

Briana: I just realized... What's that? 

Jan: Where do you start? 

Briana: Well, you know, there's a couple of things that you do, and it depends on where, where you're starting from, right?

Like, every person is in their own space. Like, if you're starting from, like, where I was, like, with all that debt, is, you know, like, getting the debt paid off. But I could've done it so much smarter, right? Like, I could've been more intentional with my money and had it paid off quicker. And in fact, going back even further, what I would've told my younger self, I mean, I- It's hard to go back and say like I, I have regrets because part of it is also the growth.

Like I- Mm-hmm ... learned so much about myself- Mm-hmm ... on that way. But if I were to do it again, I would not have done college. I don't need college for what I do. I would've gone on to like specializations and educations and different things like that. But college was, you know, like about six major changes along the way and, you know, and then a lot of debt, and then not being able to get a job for a while.

So, um, I would've not taken out the debt. I would've, you know... Right? And but, you know, where you are where you are. And so like if a woman is starting, if she's starting with a lot of debt, if it's credit card debt, pay off the credit card debt because those are designed to keep you trapped. Mm-hmm. Um, there's such a high interest rate, so get those paid off.

Um, and then s- put some emergency fund set aside so that- Mm-hmm ... like if something happens- 

Jan: Yeah ... 

Briana: you don't have to go to debt again, right? And actually- Mm-hmm ... they say that to set aside like a month's worth of emergency fund and then pay off the credit card. And then save up a little bit more, three to six months, and then you start investing, right?

And that's kind of like the, the big financial gurus, that's kind of the recommendation. And like so like wait until step four to start investing. But I, I'm gonna disagree here. I think especially for women, investing is such a black box of like, oh my gosh, like it feels hard, it feels scary, I don't know how to do it, I'm not equipped, I'm not good enough.

Like all of the shame stories show up and all of our limiting beliefs, and it becomes this someday. Someday I'll do it after I get all this taken care of. Right. And I wanna say make that day today. Right? Even if you are only investing like $5 a month or even if it's like $2, even if $2 is all you can do. To me it's about getting the energy set up.

Like get the system set up. Mm-hmm. Start the automation. Because it's really simple once you start. You know, you set it up, you automate it, you're putting the money in, and then as soon as you get that debt paid off, you can hit it harder, right? Yeah. But that way it's no longer scary. It's no longer this like, "Oh my gosh, I don't even know what I'm doing."

We're not stuck in those limiting beliefs of I don't know how to. And the thing is with investing, and Jen, I feel like you probably know this, is like the, the time value of money is the most important thing. So starting, the sooner you start- Yeah ... the better you get your money working for you, right? And the, the, the compound interest- Um, that you get from investing earlier.

Like, you know, like even somebody investing like 10 years earlier than I am now. You know, like I'm 46 now. Like, it would've been great to have that 10 years. It's okay. This is where I am. Um, but it's like that time value of money. So just getting started, letting it not feel scary is kind of- Yeah ... what I recommend.

Jan: I love the thing that you can just set up and, well, we're at Bank of America, you can just set up every month it goes into a separate fund. You don't even get to see the money. Yeah. I, that's the kind of thing we do, and I think that's what- That works for me ... everybody wants. I think that works for people.

That's, it helps- Yeah. Yeah ... you know, right away rather than you even saying, "Oh, now I should put that over my savings," but I could- I don't know 

Patti: what you're talking about. I 

Jan: really wanna get this new couch. 

Patti: So, uh, so when you talk about, like, investing, so I, I know for myself, and I think there's a lot of people out there, like the idea of investing is super overwhelming and like what does that, like

And I think that, like when I think about investing I'm like, "Okay, okay, now I have to understand the stock markets and I have to understand this and that." And like so what do you, how do, how do people start that process? Like, and also I like the, the idea that you talk about like start investing $2 a month.

Like that I'm like, "Oh, I could do $5 a month." Like to invest, to start. And I like the idea of, because I teach it in my business, of like just get a basic system in place to get used to actually doing something. And then as your business grows or something changes, you, you have, it's a muscle that you're used to, to flexing.

And so you're kind of talking about the same thing there. Mm-hmm. So how do people, like, understand that stuff and like not feel overwhelmed by it or start that process? 

Briana: Yes. Um, yeah. So the first thing I say to do is like open up a brokerage account if you don't already have one. If you're an employee, you might already have one.

Like if you've ever had a, a 401set up, like, you know, the main, the big three is like Vanguard, Charles Schwab, um, and like Fidelity, but there are others out there. And you open up an account. It's free to open up. You just need your social security number and, and some other personal information. And then you wanna open up like, like a, a regular brokerage account, but then like a Roth IRA I say, you know, because there's tax advantages to that.

There's certain limitations you kind of need to understand about that. Um, and then I say like just start investing in some index funds. Index funds because here's the thing. Like so, um, don't stock pick, right? Stock pick is like, like playing the slot machine. So if you're like somebody who's like, "You know what?

I like playing slot machines. I don't expect to ever actually win anything, I just do it 'cause I have fun. And I spent, you know, X amount of money on vacation once a year on the slot machines," and now you wanna, you stock pick. Like treat it the same way is what I say. 'Cause I, I used to do that. I used to spend a lot of time like researching different companies- Mm

'cause I didn't know how to do it, you know? And I would be like, "Okay, this is a good company and this one and this one," and I would invest in it. And at first like it started taking off and I was like, "Oh, this is cool. I finally got it." Every single one of them I, I have lost. I have lost thousands of dollars doing it that way.

Mm. So, um, I do not recommend that. And that's why they say like a diversified portfolio. And that's where index funds come in. And I think index funds captures like a wide array of a whole bunch of the top performing companies. And it's constantly on rotation, so like companies that aren't performing as well drop out or new ones come in.

Um, so that's what I say. So just start investing and automate it so that every month or however often, you can do it every week or probably even more frequently if you want, you're putting a little bit of money into the investment. 

Jan: So Brianna, um, what would you suggest though, um- How much money should you have before you start going into, like, getting stocks and things?

Should you have a, a fund for a cri- I mean, do you know what I'm asking? How much money should you have a- around you- For y- ... maybe for crisis, and this is for- Yes ... whatever, and then, uh, this is 401for me, and then now I'll, I'll look at my stocks and bonds. I mean, that, to me that seems like it, what's the order of doing that?

What would you suggest? 

Briana: Yeah. No, great question. Um, so what I, what I recommend is first go ahead and set up, like, the $5 a month or $2 a month just so that it's happening so that it doesn't feel scary for you, right? Like that I feel like just, just do it. It doesn't cost any money to have the brokerage account.

And if it's just, like, a couple dollars a month that, you know, if you can do that, do that. Um, that's my recommendation, and that's different from most of the financial advisors in the world. They'll say first do... You know, and, and I do agree with this part. At least so, like, first thing is to have, like, a month's worth of, of s- income set aside.

That's like your emergency fund, right? So whatever that is for you. That way if something happens, you have a pet get sick or a car break down or, you know, Patty, I know your, you know, you had to get a new computer recently. And so, like, having, you know, having money that you're not stuck and that you don't have to put it on debt.

So, um, yeah. So, so that, like, a one month. And then start paying off any credit card debt, and specifically credit card debt because of the high interest rate. Right. So get your credit card debt paid off. Hit it as much as you can. Throw as much money as you can at it. Some people have an option to put it to get, like, a personal finance loan that you can get a much lower rate.

I have clients who have done that. Um, and then you, you know, sometimes, like, you can get, like, a- A financing option with your house where you're, it's more of a personal, some kind of personal loan that you can do. And so you get a lower rate, and so you're not getting so much interest. Um, otherwise just hit that credit card debt, get it paid off, and then, and then the recommendation is three to six months worth of income.

Set that aside. Mm-hmm. Put it in a high yield savings account, and then after you have that set aside, then to start investing. Or then they would say, like, if you're, um, if you're an em- if you're employed, you have an employer that offers a matching fund, um, match that fund because that's free money for you.

Jan: Yep. 

Briana: Um, so that, that's for, you know, and that, the 401ks are only if you're an employee. Um, but then yeah, do that. And that is investing. You are investing in the stock market when you have a 401k. Right. Right. Um, and then you start doing it on your own. You start investing hard, 'cause you're gonna need more than what you've got in that 401k by the time you retire.

Patti: Yeah. Yeah. 

Briana: Yeah, 'cause like you said, like the govern- like, you know, if we're depending on Social Security, like we just don't know. We just don't know what's gonna be available to us, so. 

Patti: Yeah. 

Jan: Yep. That's a big if. What's gonna happen? If, if. 

Patti: Yeah. 

Jan: Yeah. 

Patti: Yeah. Yeah. Um, so what are you ... So you work with a lot of women that are in these scenarios and things like that.

Mm-hmm. So what do you see most common come through as far as, like, what women are struggling with or, like, the myths that they believe and things like that as they start to become more financially independent or even just start dipping their toe in, like, "Oh, maybe I can have some sort of, you know, agency over my, my money"?

Briana: Right. Yeah. You know, and it's, it's, there's quite an array. Um, like I have some women that have a high amount of debt, that it's first, "You know what? I need to, I need to make a little bit of extra money on the side to, to hit that and knock that out." Mm-hmm. Um, and sometimes it's really helping them find support.

You know, like I, I have one client who, um, got like a family, a family loan to move her credit card to the family loan. And now is much, you know, is a much more a, like- lower interest rate for her Right ... but she still wants to get that debt paid off. So she's just looking for like a, a secondary income source to help knock that out.

And then we'll move into like more of like the, the longer term goal planning, goal setting, like how much do you need to retire to live the life you want? When do you want to retire? Because it's this idea- Yeah ... is like we don't have to be 65 when we retire. Like i- and to reframe the word retire, it doesn't mean stop working, it means I work because I want to work.

Yeah. I work because it's fulfilling to me, not because I have to. And so I love that concept of like it's really more about financial freedom, and so taking a, a bigger, longer look at the financial freedom plan. A lot of other women that I work with are, you know, sometimes they have good employment, they have jobs, maybe they've had their debt taken care of, but they're, they're in jobs that they don't love.

And so they're just kind of in this rat race of feeling like, "I need to just keep working and grinding," but they're so overwhelmed with their jobs, they don't have capacity to just step back and say, "I want more for my life than this. I'm meant for so much more. This job is not fulfilling me." I, even though I, maybe I, maybe they do it really well, maybe they're making really good money, but they're so unfulfilled.

Yeah. And so really taking a look at that and helping them plan. A lot of women, they wanna just make a plan and, and put some savings aside, give them enough space so that they can leave their job and then begin creating and exploring. And other women, maybe they have a little bit of capacity on the side that they wanna begin creating their like, their life's work on the side, you know, while they're working.

Mm-hmm. So depends on the person. But yeah. 

Patti: Yeah. Yeah. And do you find, you know, like when we talk about, and like Jan you, you've talked a bit about sort of the, the relationship piece of, you know- Mm-hmm ... when you're in a relationship with somebody and you're depending on them or- Yeah ... or any of that. Like, have you found or experienced anything with any of your clients in working with people on like how that affects their relationship when they're like dependent on a partner and, you know, I mean, yeah, I'm, I'm sure that affects people in a l- in a lot of ways.

Like, I couldn't imagine being dependent on another human, um, for that. But a lot of people are in that situation and, and that's a part of their life. 

Jan: Well, it's interesting. My husband is an accountant, really firmly believes that, uh, that people when they get married, that they should have a joint account, that they should share their money.

It should come together like this rather than being separate. And many, many, uh, I don't know, lately it seems everybody wants to have their own account and they don't wanna share their money. They are married, but they aren't sharing things. So that's a very interesting, uh, area to talk to people about 'cause, about, you know, having to make joint decisions about big things you're buying.

Or, "No, I'm just gonna buy this house, I don't care what you say," you know? So- 

Briana: Hmm ... 

Jan: uh, i- that's a whole different, you know, idea. But I, I l- I kind of hate at first I wanted to have my own 'cause, you know, in case I don't like this guy, I'm out of here, you know? Right. Yeah. 

Briana: So I want my money. Once out the door, yeah.

You 

Jan: know? Right. But, uh, th- there is some merit to, I think, having to have joint decisions and work that way, but it's challenging because, you know, you may want to buy a house that's, you know, a whole lot more money than what you can, you have to work really hard for, or can you scale it back? I mean, there's just so many things that come up, and I think relationship and money is, it's more challenging.

W- what, what are your thoughts, Brianna? 

Briana: Yeah. Well, you know, and you thought we wouldn't be talking about joints today. Because you're having knee surgery. Sorry. Joint, joint account. Um, I 

Jan: think- Yeah, joint knees and joint feet ... 

Briana: I think, and joint, joint knees and ac- accounts. Um, so yeah, I see, I see it both ways too.

I see a lot of couples that keep their stuff separate, and I think that that works for some people. I think that that is- Mm-hmm ... that is okay. But what I also see happening in a lot of it is there's not a communication between them, right? Mm-hmm. And that I think- Yeah ... you have shared resources. You, you have your stuff all wrapped up in each other.

And so sitting down and talking about like what are the, the dreams, the long-term dreams, right? Yeah. And so that you guys can have conversations about- You know, like, do we want to have this, this nice big house, or do we want to retire early? And what does that look like? What does the bounds of that look like?

And travel. Yep, mm-hmm. Right? Yeah. Or to travel, right? Like, what are our priorities? And, you know, when you're working with another human being, the, the reality is sometimes you have different priorities. 

Jan: Right. 

Briana: And that's different. But I think having regular conversations with whatever that is I think is really important.

And sometimes it does mean that, you know, like, if the one person's dream is to, to travel more and the other person's like, "I just wanna retire early," like, you might be working for those dreams, like, independently in a way, but still, like, have to come together on certain things if you're, if you're sharing a home, if you're sharing other resources.

Um- Yeah ... but I think it's, it's finding what works for you without shame. I think- Yeah ... a lot of people think that, oh, we should be having a joint account Maybe, maybe not. Yeah. And that's okay. Yeah. 

Patti: I think I like, I mean, the idea of when you're in a relationship with somebody, especially in a longer term, whether it be a marriage or, you know, what that looks like.

But having a joint account I think is really important, especially with shared expenses and things like that. Yeah. But I think there's also empowerment that comes from also- Mm-hmm ... having your own accounts and having your own- Mm-hmm ... money and that sort of thing. And so maybe it's a, "Hey, we agree that we put in X amount into a joint account on a regular basis."

Mm-hmm. "And then we... But we are like in case I wanna buy you a gift or do something that you don't get to see what I'm doing-" Mm-hmm. "... in my own account," or just whatever. Like we're individuals and we don't need, you know, it, it- Right ... that's how I would, myself, again. But I think you're right. I think it's like everybody's different, but that's what...

Because I'm a very independent person in relationships. Yeah. I like having connection and being joint, but I also am very, you know, whether or not, which I've mentioned before, like I can be a little bit of a commitment-phobe, so there's probably a part of me that's always got one little leg. You know? And so that's one of those ways to keep my little leg out is to, to have that.

But, but I think that there's, there's power in that and, and, and I think it's important to feel independent in those ways, and that keeps a sense of- Yeah ... independence, um, I think when you do it that way as well. 

Briana: So what you're talking about is like, like a hybrid account, you know? Like where you have a joint account- Yeah

but then you also have your own things. And I do recommend, no matter what variation you set up for you and, and if there's a partner, is that you have your, you have spending money that is just yours, right? Yeah. Like what if, if you have the flexibility in your budget. Like some people don't, and that's okay too, right?

Like we are where we are. But if you have some flexibility where you can set aside X amount of dollars and this is your money, your partner does not get to question you on your expenses. If you guys have differences and, you know- Yeah ... maybe like, you know, yeah, there could be all kinds of different reasons.

And this, they have their money and there's an equal balance between them and who gets what, and you don't, you know- Yeah ... you don't get to question. You're like, "Oh, I can't believe you bought that thing," like. 

Patti: Right. Yeah. Yeah. 

Briana: You 

Patti: know? Yeah. So, so what do you recommend then, like people who want to start learning about money and becoming more comfortable?

Like there's no shortage of- people to listen to and things to sign up for. Yes. And I think that can feel a little overwhelming- Overwhelming ... as well. Yeah. So, like, do you have, like, w- either from your own experience, because obviously you've grown and learned yourself through this process to get to a point where you're working with and coaching women in this, this space.

But, you know, what, where do you recommend people start as far as finding that information that's reliable and not kind of like the bro, like- Yeah ... "Yeah, let's cr-" You know, you know what I'm trying to say? Like- 

Briana: Yeah, yeah, yeah. How do you avoid, like, the bad information? I mean, I would say- Yeah ... a couple things to watch out for is, like, not to hire, like, a financial advisor.

Well, there are reasons for financial advisors, but I would say if you need a financial advisor, so, like, for the case of, like, maybe you've come into an inheritance or something, and you need- Right ... to figure out what to do. There are tax implications for that, and a financial advisor could be very helpful.

If you are just starting to do your own investing, like, that does not re- require, like, you just start investing. You buy some index funds, and you set that up, and you just keep doing that. Um, and, and so you don't necessarily need a guru. So watch out for, for anyone who's a, a broker, and not that they're bad people, and they, some of them are, like, the friendliest people in the world.

But the, the, because of the way it's set up, they are taking a cut of your money. They're recommending stocks for you not because of they're the best stocks, but they usually get some kind of kickback from that. And so they're never, it's, it's structured in a way that they're never gonna be working for you.

So I say always find, like, if you're gonna work with a financial advisor, find somebody who you pay a flat fee. You know exactly how much you're paying them for their service, and then that's, that's it. And then if you need to go back to them, you can. Um, I would also caution against stock picking. We already talked about that.

What are some of the other big things? Um, I had a couple notes on- Are 

Patti: there, are there people that you follow? Are there, you know- Resources ... resources that you go to when you wanna learn, um, and get more information or anything like that that you find 

Briana: credible? Yeah. Yeah. Let's see. I find, um... Let's see. A book I really like that I feel like made it really simple is called The Simple Path to Wealth.

Mm. Um, and he kinda talks about it. He's a little bit snarky, but I, I think he, he keeps it really simple and clean, and I don't think he's like... Some of the, some of the big gurus out there I think can be very, um, I don't know, condescending in some ways, and I, I find him to be very straightforward. And I can't remember the author's name, but I think if you look up The Simple Path to Wealth, um, was a pretty good read and it's not too big and heavy.

And it depends on where you are in your journey, right? Because I work with women who are wanting to just, like empower themselves, increase their income. Some of it's mindset stuff, so I have books- Mm ... that I recommend on mindset stuff. Some women like undercharge, and so there's some books for that. Mm.

There's, you know, a really good book called Overcoming Underearning for things like that. There's, you know, other challenges. Um, but as far as investing goes, I feel like that's a really good book to start with. You know, and then I offer complimentary discovery calls if y- somebody's like listening to this and they're like, "Okay, I don't know where to start."

No pressure. Like, I n- I never pressure anybody. Yeah. Um, but you can get some value out of it, so that's on my website And those are some good starting points. Yeah. 

Patti: I love that you brought up mindset, and I think that that's something that affects women specifically because we come from a society that is so patriarchal, and, you know, where we aren't taught about these things.

And women typically make less than men. And there's also... I've read things about, like, men when they go in to, let's say, ha- get a raise or something like that, or go in for their annual review, or when they're first getting a job, they'll negotiate just more comfortably about the amount that they get paid, and women will kind of be like, "Okay."

And, like, we aren't taught to- Yeah ... negotiate as much. And so I think that that's where kind of what you're talking about, like mindset can come into play. And like you said also, when you own a business, pricing and things like that. And because we, we oftentimes will get our worth kind of mixed in- Yes. 

Briana: Oh

Patti: with money and what we're charging and our value. Like, it gets very messy. 

Briana: Absolutely. Uh-huh. 

Patti: So I love that, that you are talking about that as well. Um, there was a book that, I don't... Jen Sincero, You Are a Badass at Making Money. Oh, I love that book. That's a- I love that so much. I think it's such a great book because it's also...

it's not condescending, and it basically- No, it's not ... talks about the mindset side of- Yeah ... money and not just about in business for business owners, but in your everyday life and how can you be more empowered around money and not be afraid to talk about it. And I think that's another piece too, is like, how can you on a regular basis not be afraid to talk about it?

And, and even just, I think, making that, that shift in your life to be more comfortable talking about money with family and friends and your partner and, and whatever- Yeah ... that might look like. I think those are small things- Yeah ... that help in that mindset because then it, and, and it helps with shame, right?

'Cause you're not worried about it as much. You're like, "Well, this is what, what it is," and- ... you know, you're, you're also then hearing- Yeah, and you know you're 

Briana: not alone. 

Patti: Yeah. That's what I was gonna say. Yeah, you're also, you're hearing other people's experiences where you're like, "Oh, it's not just me that's struggling with this.

It's not just me that's having trouble saving or that made a bad investment or that, you know, what- or has a lot of debt," or whatever that, that is. And so I think that that's a really great point as well. 

Briana: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. There, and yeah, there's so many great books out there, and that is- Yeah

that is a favorite, so. Yeah. And it's a really easy to read because she's, like- Yeah ... got such an attitude. 

Patti: Yeah, yeah. She's, like, really endearing. And she does, she has an audio version that's also really great, and she narrates it. Yeah, and it's 

Briana: her reading it. Yeah. So that's, yeah. Yeah. 

Patti: Definitely. Awesome. Is there anything else that you wanted to share that we haven't touched on yet?

Um, 'cause I know this is your area of expertise- Um- ... and you do this a lot, and yeah. 

Briana: Yeah. Um, let's see if there are any other things. Like, you know, I mean- I think part of it also, I think it's important to recognize that some things like, like a lot of times we get caught up in this hustle culture. Like, we live in this world of like comparison- 

Patti: Yeah

Briana: and not enough. Sometimes like this con- like the idea of consumerism where we just think we need to buy stuff to have the stuff. Yeah. And I don't know if a woman has ever gotten caught up in the like, "I need to have the right clothing or the right car-" Yeah. Sure ... or the right house to look a certain way.

That is all, that is all marketing that is trained into us to make us feel not enough. And so like- Yeah ... just taking a look at like seeing like what are the messages, like if you're wanting to buy the thing versus like, you know, really watch that expense. And, and I'm never one to say like cut joy from your life, right?

Like it's like- 

Patti: Yeah ... 

Briana: it's like we need to spend on the things that we love, but then cut, cut ruthlessly. I've heard somebody say cut ruthlessly on the things that don't light you up. And so not putting money onto something that's like, you know what, I can do without that thing. Mm. And recognizing that, that, that a lot of this culture of like I need to buy more things is really marketing.

Jan: Yeah. 

Patti: Yeah. Yeah. It's everywhere. Yeah. And then the budgeting side of it, I like that too, of the idea of like you can budget but also still have things that bring you joy in your life. You don't have to budget so strictly that you remove anything fun and that it's this kind of hard, awful life that you're living-

for a future that maybe you'll have where you'll have the money, but it's not about that. It's finding that balance. 

Briana: I think that is like another myth a lot of people believe is that budgeting is restrictive, right? Because and, it, actually what it is is it gives clarity into what you want. Yeah. And so I'll give a personal example recently.

So like I'm a huge Smashing Pumpkins fan, right? I grew up in the '80s and '90s and I, I love the Smashing Pumpkins, and they're coming to Pittsburgh, and my friend reached out to me and she's like, "Do you wanna get tickets?" And I'm like, "Okay, that would be super fun, but that's $50 for a ticket, plus of course my husband will want to go, plus of course my daughter's not gonna want to be left out.

So we're talking $150 plus like any kind of other transaction fees. If there's taxes, gas money, parking if we grab dinner along the way, we're probably talking 200, $250. Okay. So, so so there's that, and that, that would be super fun. But now my husband's recently like got his eye on a sailboat. So we, we used to live on a sailboat when we lived in Seattle, and I feel so much joy being out on the water on a sailboat.

It's just like the, the best feeling in the world. And we're kind of landlocked here in Western Pennsylvania, but there are some like marinas close by that we could get a small boat on. And so we've been looking at that, and that, you know, we're trying to keep our expenses between like 1,500 to 2,000. Um, but that $250 for the tickets is like, when I think about the joy that I would get from being on a sailboat, it's like- Sorry, Billy Corgan, I love you, but you're gonna have to wait.

Like, it just makes the choice- Mm ... really clear for me. Mm-hmm. And somebody else might choose the other thing. Somebody else would be like, "No, there's no way I'm gonna say no to Smashing Pumpkins, you know, over being on the water." Yeah. And that's okay. And I think, I think that is what budgeting gives us, is clarity over where our priorities are and goals.

Mm-hmm. And, and, and so rather than thinking of it as restrictive, thinking of it as expansive, I think that's, um, kind of the shift I invite people into. Yeah. 

Jan: That's a great shift. Sometimes I just need to remind people of it. That was the shift, uh, Brianna, that I had to make, 'cause I was- Yeah ... from a background, I could spend my money on anything if I wanted it, you know?

And- Yeah ... my husband always makes fun of me saying, you know, "Jan, you were the princess Jan, and, uh, you're not the princess anymore." No, he didn't say that. But it, it, it definitely ... He, "I'm the queen now." Um- 

Briana: Absolutely. 

Jan: You're the freaking queen ... I've had, I've had two kids, so I'm a queen now. 

Briana: Yeah. 

Jan: Uh, but that, the, but, but having a, a structure to cont- it's like a container to look at and make decisions about buying things and stuff.

Yeah. And we, we did, you know? Should we get a new car? Okay, so let's see. We have, like, maybe 10 more years on this planet, so, uh, we need to ... Do we wanna get a used car? You know, just it feels like ... And this is our budget, $30,000. That's all we wanna ... And so it helps make decisions much clearer. Yeah. And, um, that's what I learned.

Patti: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I think this has been super awesome, and like both of you had a lot to offer as far as that clarity, and I really love that. Um, and especially people like me who feel still a little, even though I'm in my mid-40s, feel a little lost sometimes. But, but it's very helpful and it's empowering to have these conversations and to hear about the small shifts that I can make on a, on a, like starting at this one place.

Doable. Yeah. And, and it makes it less overwhelming and less scary and less shameful then. And so then it's sort of like, "Okay, cool. I got this. I can..." You know, it's like any routine that you're starting to create and starting small and letting it grow, and I think that's really awesome. 

Briana: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I hope this has felt really empowering. And Patty, remember, like, you have your own offerings of things that you are, like, brilliant in, right? Yeah. Like, you're like my, my tech person. Any like- Yeah. Yeah ... I don't know, you know, tech stuff. You're my girl. 

Patti: Right. 

Briana: So I just- Yeah ... yeah, appreciate that. Yeah. We all have our different things, so.

Patti: It's true. It's true. Money just isn't my, my, my greatest skill. And that's where 

Briana: I get to, to find the resources. 

Patti: Exactly, yeah. I follow up with. And then I get to, yeah. 

Briana: Yeah. 

Patti: Th- there we go. Grow and grow my knowledge and my experience and things, so. Yeah. Well, thank you so much. Well, thank you 

Briana: so much. 

Patti: Yeah.

Yeah. I really appreciate it. Thanks a lot. This was so- Yes ... so helpful and, you know, we'll have in the show notes information if anybody's interested in, in, you know, working- Yes ... with you or just learning more from you, um- Yeah ... along with other resources that we'll share from, um, you know, books and things like that.

So, yeah. 

Briana: Oh, yeah, I wanted to offer kind of a, paired up with the, the financial empowerment work that I work with with other women, um, a part of there is, like, also a spiritual part of it. And so w- I do what's called akashic record readings, and your akashic records is like a library of, like, your soul's, like of everything related to you and your soul's experience.

And so it's a spiritual guide. It's not, uh, it's not a psychic reading. It doesn't predict the future, but it reads the energy of now. And so when I open... You know, when somebody gives me permission to open their akashic record, we can ask questions around, like, anything, like, blocking them financially. We get all kinds of ideas in there, things that we might not have had- Hmm

access to before, right? Okay. Things that might not have been in our awareness. And so, you know, it expands kind of the opportunities, the possibilities available to you on a spiritual level. Um, and so that is something that I also offer in addition to- Great ... my other programs. And- Yeah ... um, and so yeah, and if any of your listeners were interested in experiencing that, I'm offering it at 40% off, so $45 with the code mymother45, and you're welcome to use that until the end of August.

And- 

Patti: Yeah Awesome. Thank you. And, and I'll add it in the show notes as well, so if anybody wants to learn more about Akashic readings and what that means and, and any other ways to work with you and, and- Okay ... both in the physical, m- uh, financial or in the spiritual level of that, um, then they can reach out to you.

Briana: All right. Thanks so much. 

Patti: Awesome. Thank you so much. 

Briana: Thanks, Brianna. All right. 

Patti: Thanks. 

Jan: Thanks for listening to the podcast. If you like what you've heard, please share it with friends, subscribe and leave a review. 

Patti: And remember, information shared on this podcast is not medical advice. If you have a concern about your physical or mental health, please seek support from a professional.

Jan: If you have a story you'd like to share about things your mother forgot to mention, you can apply to be a guest. 

Patti: We'd also love to hear a quick 90-second thing you've learned in your life. 

Jan: You can find links to both of those over at our website at- 

Patti: thingsmymotherforgottomention.com or in the show notes.

Jan: Thank you.